So Mantic has released their Clash of Kings Pack which likely foreshadows the Rules Committee's Tournament Pack - and it has a number of rules changes.
Unit Entry Changes
Cursed Pharaoh – This unit has Defence 5 not 6. The points value remains the same.
Ahmunite Pharaoh– This unit has Defence 5 not 6. The points value remains the same.
Special Rules
Note the amendments to the following special rule: Fly
The unit can move over anything (blocking terrain, enemy units, friendly units when charging, etc.), but still cannot land on top of them. The unit does not suffer hindered charges for moving over difficult terrain or obstacles, unless it ends the move within or touching them. The unit also has the Nimble special rule.
While Disordered, units lose Fly. Note that this also means they lose the Nimble that Fly provides too, unless they have it by another means (such as Individuals).
Army Selection
Within your main force, you cannot select the same unit entry of type War Engine, Hero or Monster more than 3 times. For example, in a goblin army, you could take a maximum of 3 War Trombones and a maximum of 3 Wiz heroes. You could still then take up to 3 Biggits of course.
Allies
If you include allies, you cannot select the same allied unit entry of type War Engine, Hero (all types) or Monster more than once. For example, in a goblin allied contingent, you could take a maximum of 1 War Trombone and a maximum of 1 Wiz hero.
In addition, magic artefacts cannot be given to any allied units you take.
Scenarios
Invade! and Dominate!
In games using the Invade! and Dominate! scenarios, only count half the points value of units with the Individual special rule and/or War Engines that are in the defined scoring area at the end of the
game.
Loot! and Push!
While carrying one or more loot counters, units cannot use the Fly or Nimble special rules.
Pillage!
War Engines cannot capture/control objectives in this scenario
So what do people think? Are the changes needed? Will they make KoW a better game?
More importantly will you use them in your casual games? Do you want to see them used at events? Some? All?
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I don't think the Pharaoh needed the change, but I seem to be in the minority (I stopped using him anyway). It is encouraging that they are willing to actually errata units though.
ReplyDeleteGlad that individuals in the scenarios have been toned down. Some heroes (like my expensive vamp lords) could game the scenario a bit easy.
Army selection changes I don't see changing much - I did not frequently see 4 or more of the same type of thing. Have to admit I will be glad not to see 5 Kin wizards with both fireball 10 and lightning 5 anymore!! I would have preferred allies keeping the ability to take artefacts.
"While Disordered, units lose Fly" - This is the huge one and I quite like it. It means you won't be able to just fly in front of a unit, block a melee, then fly off later. Once engaged you are mostly 'stuck' like all other units.
I dont like any of the restrictions on army composition (allied artifacts, max of 3 same types etc) or the changes to scoring at all however the Loot Changes are good. But the rest is fine I think.
ReplyDeleteThe pharaoh was pretty tough and this makes him a lot more manageable but I haven't played him only against him.
ReplyDeleteI like the fly changes as flyers are overly dominant. My idea was to just remove nimble and no fly carrying loot. So this is similar but flyers still can be dominant if used correctly.
Army composition will not affect many people but I'm miffed if adopted as I had designed an army that breaks these rules and I wanted to try it out. I'm currently painting some old models ready for it. I can't think that if armies break this rule that they would be overpowered, as It looks to me that the points and armies are reasonably balanced.
Never liked allies anyway - too easy a way to compensate for army
weaknesses.
I don't think the scenario changes are necessary or will make much difference except for Loot which I agree with.
What is the Push scenario?
At the end of the day I suggest we go with whatever is made official. In the meantime maybe just the flyer and Loot changes.
The multiple unit comp will likely hit some armies more than others - I take it you were thinking about goblins?
DeleteYes mainly goblins but it could affect some other armies like ratkin and orcs, and anybody who wants to try a themed spam srmy.
DeleteGood changes. 3 war trombones is plenty (tbh I do wonder if this unit is a bit broken). We were already playing this spam limiting house rule.
ReplyDeletePharoh - we were seeing lots of Empire of Dust appearing, even when models seemed a closer match for the traditional gothic undead, so perhaps something was broken.
I disagree. I regularly face a opponent who uses 4 of the things and i would rather have to figure out a way to beat them on the tabletop than have them restricted off the table before the game even began.
DeleteI also disagree that the Trombone is broken as the Goblin list doesn't have all that much Piercing, Crushing Strength or Thunderous Charge. The unit suits the army perfectly and helps make them a challenge to play, otherwise they would have a really hard time with Defence 5 or 6 units
I think flying was a bit too good in the straight v2, as it is so easy for them to fly off even when you do manuvere your guys into a winnable fight with them. Not unbeatable, but good and detracting from non-flier armies ability to follow our own strategy as forced to constantly respond.
DeleteWar Trombones - I love 'em, but have got a bit over reliant on them, which can get boring. They are so hard for opponents to counter. Re CS, TC, Piercingn in gobbo list, Trolls, Fleabags, Mawbeasts, Stone throwers, spear chukas, Giants, mincers, plus allies, plus magic items - not too bad I reckon. Don't get me wrong - I don't really won't war trombones nerfed, but breath attacks can be over used that makes games a bit dull.
Love the changes to "flying": My group has tried a few games with this rule and not only did it feel more fair to me, who was not playing with fliers, but my opponent actually enjoyed his Elohi *more* with this change. I made the risk/reward game a lot more interesting for him, and he welcomed the challenge.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the other changes and some people disliking them in comments, specifically the army composition changes (max 3 engine/hero/monster): Even if these rules do become official errata, you and your group can always bend them to your liking. I'm currently playing a "Feudal Japanese Folklore" army (Varangur reskinned), and after a quick rundown of what's what, my friends are really enjoying fighting it because it's unique and interesting. That's the beauty of KoW -- it lends itself perfectly to this type of customization, and since the core rules are so simple, it doesn't really add any complication or mental workload for the other players.
That said, do beware of an army concept that completely skews the intent of the game -- when a list bends the rules and becomes too one-sided your play group's own meta starts to shift as players try to build counter lists. After awhile, it can devolve into a frustrating exercise of metagaming your opponent's latest abuse of rules. E.g. 7 Big Rocks Throwers all in a row behind 8 legions of Rabble that just sit there is probably not going to impress your friends. (Totally extreme example to illustrate the point).
I was actually wondering if there shouldn't be restrictions on regular units too? I've played against a proxied army of 6 Drakkon Rider hordes, a Green Lady, and something else...once. Not fun, and that army was never seen again. In fact, it pushed our group away from KoW for a while as none of the rest of us was all that interested in designing an army just to beat a bunch of flying paper proxies. Dissapointing to say the least. I'm no expert, but so far, I've never really seen a reason to have more than 4 of anything, and generally, if I have 4 of them, their troops. And that makes thematic sense, where as spamming hordes of big hammer-units doesn't really.
Pretty much agree with all that. You tend to find no real disagreement six months on that the CoK fixes improved the game.
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