I saw a lot of things at Adepticon that did not look like "fun". Most involved either uber characters or the Elf-Allsorts list. This was followed by the "Legion of Skullcannon" list. I've tried to address these issues while letting some of the cool things in the End Times to be used.
So here is a Draft Update to FOB-Lite Comp. Really like to get people's thoughts on it. As always constructive feedback is valued most highly.
MAGIC DICE
Power Dice usage is limited to 12 in any one Magic Phase.
Night Goblin Mushroom D6 do not count as
"power dice" as per their Army book.
Chaos Dwarfs’ Chalice may not be used mid-spell.LIST RESTRICTIONS
- No single non character unit in the army may be over 500 points
- No triple of the same warmachine except for Elven Bolt Throwers/O&G Spear Chukkas where you may take up to 4
- Max 4 units with the ‘Fly’ or 'Hover' special rule (a max of 3 may be characters)
- BSBs in older books are assumed to have mundane weapons as per core troops
- “Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress” may not be taken.
- Maximum of three of the same character selection e.g. three Warlock Engineers, three Scar Vets, three Masters etc
RACE SPECIFIC RESTRICTIONS:
- No variant lists in ET: Khaine, ET: Thanquol and ET: Archaon may be taken.
- No Special Characters from ET: Khaine or ET: Archaon may be selected
Skaven
- A Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace may only be placed in a unit containing no more than 50 models.
- Stormfiends, Thanquol and any Verminlords from ET: Thanquol may be selected
Tomb Kings
- Khalida is restricted to unit with 40 shots
- Tomb King units may march as per ET rules
- May select Morghasts
Daemons of Chaos
- Beasts of Nurgle restricted to maximum of 6 in list with Epidemius
- May select Blightkings, Wrathmongers or Skullreapers
- May select Maggoth Lords
Ogres
- You may take a max of two of Dispel Scroll, Runemaw or Hellheart
Warriors of Chaos
- Crown of Command may not be taken on model with Third Eye of Tzeentch
- May select Blightkings, Wrathmongers or Skullreapers
- May select Maggoth Lords
Vampire Counts
- May select Morghasts
Empire
- May not take Karl Franz Ascendant
Beastmen
- May take marks as per ET: Glottkin rules
- May select Blightkings, Wrathmongers or Skullreapers
- May select Maggoth Lords
Undead Legion
- May not take Nagash
Legion of Chaos
- Any Legion of Chaos army must have all units marked by a single Chaos God – no non-marked units in the army and all units from a single God
I like. I haven't actually read any of the end times books so I can't comment at all regarding those.
ReplyDeleteThe only suggestion I would make is maybe have an allowance for O&G to take more than 3 of the same character. I may be biased having just bought a NG army, and having played O&G before, but I can't see there being a problem with them running multiple Bigbosses, shamans etc. The main culprits, and armies that could abuse that rule the most, seem to be the armies you have given as the examples (lizards, DE and Skaven).
Just a thought.
Still leaves you 3 Warbosses, 3 big bosses, 3 lvl 4 Shamans, 3 Lvl 1 shamans.
DeleteEven if you only take 1 Warbosses and one big shaman you've still got 8 characters
3 lvl4 shamans seems excessive 😋
DeleteJust think the option to run 5 or so Bigbosses isn't going over the top and won't break warhammer.
No it wouldn't - it was a catch all. If there are races where an exception should be used then happy to hear. Eg O&G
DeleteI came up against this when making my NZTC list where I had 4 goblin big bosses. However, you can have 3 Night Goblin big bosses and 3 Goblin Big Bosses so its not a limit that caps you unless it spoils your theme of all Goblins or all Night Goblins.
DeleteNeil
if you want to take more of the cheap goblin characters then you end up allowing skaven to take more 15 point warlocks. No one wants that.
DeleteNo, you just say:
DeleteOrcs and Goblins
- Ignore the multiple character restriction.
No limit on skaven stormfiends? *winces*
ReplyDeleteYeah....600 points of Rare
DeleteLimits WLC, HPA, Doomwheel, PCC spend. I think you'd struggle to see more than one unit of them/four models
Makes sense. Still waking up ;)
DeleteThe two aspects that appear to be getting the most comment concern
ReplyDelete1. 0-3 limit on characters of the same type
2. The flyer cap
One alternative to the first is specific restrictions rather than a blanket restriction e.g. Warlock Engineers, Scar Vets, DE Masters, HE Nobles, Bret Paladins, VC/UL Banshees and Wraiths.
Are there others?
And what do people think of lifting the limit on flyers?
No longer affects me as much, but the restriction on 4 flyers seems harsh when the intention appears to be to stop flying circus super chaff lists.
DeleteI see nothing wrong with a VC list with 2 terrorgiests, 2xfell bats and a hellsteed, or my High Elf list I took to Cancon (stardragon, eagle noble, 2x1 eagle, 3x1 skycutter)
I know it starts to get more race specific...but with the opening up of the lords/heroes I think this needs to be more specific.
eg: lizardman and dark/wood elves limited to 4 flyers, Everyone else limited to 6...everyone with max 3 of the flyers as characters.
Controls the abuse, lets a Bret player use the RAF, Daemon players use their tzeentch stuff, and gives the Vamps a mobile list (or an awesome list with 4 terrorgiests and some fellbats).
Joel v
oh - chuck dwarves in the max 4 flyers. 6 Gyros + gunline = might as well as for 1 game refund on the event :P
DeleteJoel v
I think we should keep the blanket restriction on characters. Hero-hammer is boring anyway. I am not sure about the flyer cap as it has been in place for so long and I haven't faced many lists with 4+ flyers.
ReplyDeleteThat's because you never have to face your own Gyro spam mate
DeleteWhat proportions for armies are assumed for this comp? I thought Archeon removed the requirement to take any amount of any type you wanted and that this had the same wording as the 50% lords a heroes in Nagash.
ReplyDeleteWhy are the undead mortarch characters OK but the avatars of magic are not OK? Same with the verminlords they and thanquol and skaven toys are OK (not that skaven needed a power boost) but other armies can't get their updated characters.
If you don't like the Army of the Phoenix king because it's essentially take the best of three books let people take the other army lists where there is at least some choice and some restriction on what units people can take.
2400 points with the 50% Lords or Heroes as per GW FAQ. None of the "rules" from ET books are used - no Khaine Magic, no "unbound".
DeleteDifferent power levels. Effectively the units in the ET are not the problem, it is generally the characters. Mortarchs and Maggoth Lords and Verminlords haven't generated horror stories - Nagash, KFA, Malekith, Imrik, too some extent Arialle have.
It's not really what I like or don't like, it was more about trying to achieve some balance so the ET stuff can be used in tournaments. The combined Elf lists have proved problematic. For instance GG core backed by bolt throwers is not fun. The inclusion of BotWD in units it was never designed for thru a BSB etc. I've no real interest going thru an exhaustive list of restrictions - with LoC, monogod was easy fix - as you'll never get it "right".
Intention has been to let people use toys - unless it is abusive /unbalanced. I'm happy to call the combined elf lists unbalanced in the context of FoB Lite comp.
In the end it is just a suggestion...people can use it as they wish.
And 9th is just around the corner anyway.