I know that people continually bitch about how expensive Games Workshop's models are - and yes they are expensive- but I don't think that they give credit for just how good they are.
Games Workshop players are as a group a hypocritical bunch always looking for fault in the machinations of the Evil Overlord [as an aside contrast this with other gamers who seem to sup the Koolaid with all the critical analysis of a Moonie Cult member].
IMO one thing that is not up for discussion is the quality of the miniatures that GW produce. Every now and then they may deliver a shocker - and don't we let them know - but 95% (at least) of what they produce is light years ahead of their competitors. This especially holds true as they have moved into plastic and left both metal and Finecast behind.
You have a look at some of the dross other companies turn out in plastic (more a resin hybrid). At Adepticon one company gave out a box set of their plastic figures and having the chance to look at the figures I saw just how inferior they were to GW. Putting aside the aesthetics - which I personally find fugly - the material was so inferior to GW's hard plastic.
I know it's cool for all you Gen Y kids to "hate the man", "rage against the machine" etc but GW seriously deserves kudos for the quality of its product. Take a look at the new Morghasts, Nagash - in fact anything from the End Times - and it really is light years ahead. The 40k Ork release similarly is packed with great models. Sure you get the odd design clanger - I'm looking at the SW Santa Sleigh - but you can never fault the production quality. The scale and grandeur of the models is staggering.
And it's not just the models. If you haven't had the chance check out the new End Times: Nagash rule book. Great production quality, lots of new art etc.
Kudos to GW...you may be the Establishment but not everything you do is evil.
Posted with Blogsy
...but how long are they going to be the best for? Every dollar spent on competitors products gets them closer to being able to compete on quality *and* cost
ReplyDeleteWell the gap between them an competitors is currently increasing at an accelerated rate IMO.
DeletePlease remember if you are posting under "Anonymous" to attach your name at the bottom of your post as a courtesy. Thanks
DeleteAt a time she "nerd" hobbies like board games are at an all time high in terms of cool, how are GW performing when it comes to conversion to this hobby? Are lower quality manufacturers getting noobs into thier games at a faster rate? I think the entire wargaming hobby may be struggling to sell itself, but GW still has the stores to get newer gamers. -Nat (again)
ReplyDeleteI suspect that GW doesn't see its mission as getting more wargamers. Instead it is to sell more GW product. I don't believe this is any different from Battlefront, Mantic, Wryd or other smaller games companies.
DeleteLight years ahead? In terms of quality and final model look I'd say Wyrd is very close. Leaving aside aesthetic, as it is a completely different timeline to either of GW's core games, the sharpness of detail and quality of the plastic is pretty much a match for GW, or very close (the plastic is a bit harder I think, more like lego block rigidity).
ReplyDeleteThey do have an issue with ease of assembly (by Yan Lo's beard!), but have been improving with each wave of releases. Of course, Wyrd are using a hard plastic as well. And also charge a fairly steep price compared to some. Maybe because quality of design, manufacture and materials is strongly related to price? Who knew?
What it then comes down to is how much you are willing to pay for something. Mantic gets a lot of criticism, including on its own forums, for being poor quality, poorly cast, in a poor material. But then it's at 25 to 50% of the cost of GW in a lot of cases. So, get what you pay for. Having said that, they are varying the material they use and seem to be improving in terms of flash and mould alignment. But if they want to remain cheaper, they are unlikely to ever 'catch up', but hit a point they are happy with.
As for the end times: I want to know which milliner they employed to design those hats and were they being paid by the millimetre?
Leon C
Well I've got 2 full fantasy battle armies thanks to Mantic & Kings of War which I never would have purchased from GW. Could the quality of some of it be better, yes it could, but I'm perfectly happy with them and even more happy with the KOW rules set.
ReplyDeleteSame with my growing collection of Dust Tactics. My much more expensive GW & FW 40K stuff is sitting in a pile doing nothing.
So Pete while you may think that everything other than GW is "dross" I for one am not drinking that particular Koolade.
Dave
Excellent....and good for you. people look for different things in the hobby and cut their cloth to fit their needs.
DeleteI bought some Mantic werewolves and they were truly awful. I reckon I'd need to spend considerable time on each model, filling gaps etc just to make them useable. OTOH their zombies are head and shoulders above GW (not unexpected given GW last updated in about 1995).
I know in my case I'd rather spend 50% more getting a nicer figure given I'm then going to invest 3-5 hours painting it.
I guess I follow the philosophy of every dollar I spend is a vote to encourage a companies behavior. I refuse to vote for a company to charge me extra for being near Australia, quality be damned.
ReplyDelete-Nat
And that's obviously your pejorative. In the end you don't have to pay "Antipodean" premium and I'd personally rather eat fillet than crosscut steak - especially if I have to cook it :-)
DeleteIndeed they are excellent models, thats the reason why i haven't stopped buying them. But the price issue is so big it cant be ignored. There are some kits/army deals i would have loved to pick up but was unable to due to the price, there are armies i would love to do, convert the hell out of them and make them themey and wonderful but cant because the prices prevents me from doing them. On a unrelated note i wish GW would have a Bitz store ,one where you can buy parts of a kit, it would make conversion soo much easier and cheaper
ReplyDeleteTo a certain extent the issue is probably not the price of GW models. It is instead the arbitrary difference in price between Europe, the USA etc and the rest of the world.
ReplyDeleteWhen purchasing a product we attribute it a value. People like getting a good deal and don't like to be "ripped off". Because GW have lower prices elsewhere we see that and we feel that this is the 'real' or reserve price. We are then reluctant to buy models here for a higher price as we feel we are being ripped of and our (well mine at least) reaction is to say "F*** off", I am buying something else. No one likes to feel cheated.
If the worldwide cost of GW product was set at the current NZ/AUS cost then more people in NZ/AUS would buy models even though the price is the same as it currently is.
McCrae
GW prices (when shopped internationally) are not bad given the quality of the product purchased. On a dollar per hour basis of use for my minis (assembling, painting, playing) the cost is inconsequencial...I've wasted more money on computer games than I've wasted on GW products...except maybe my impulse purchase of an engineer on a mechanical steed (still maintain that the model is super bad@ss).
ReplyDeleteI may prefer some individual scupts more from other companies, but GW casting processes mean I dont have to worry about deteriorating quality from later runs etc etc...IF I dont buy failcast (which I had a few bad experiences with).
Joel v
It is the getting shafted locally for loving their product that is distasteful for me. I sometimes feel like a crackhead hooker coming back for more, knowing that I'm being had, but I'm addicted.
ReplyDeleteFreedom of choice of where and how you purchase, is run over roughshod by a monopoly, that appears to have it in for antipodeans...being voiceless and powerless is the reason for everybody's dissent. It's hard to understand that the makers of something you love so much and that gives you such joy could not give two hoots about you.
With the exception of failcast, I love virtually every one of their models, expensive as they are: Hated the moment Marcus Wolfhart (NZ$33/13 Euro/ US $16.50, how the heck do we get to the NZ price?)'s bow came apart in my hand while assembling it. Then again, the same thing hapened with a forgeworld model. I really I love the fluff, and yes I love the models, and yes, you pay for what you get (most of the time) in terms of quality. All I ask for is EQUALITY with other consumers of the same product.
The GW plastic is great but I still refuse to look at any thing that is GW failcast.
ReplyDeleteThe reason anyone was given for the prices of metal figs back in the day, was the cost of the metal itself. Then I'm told GW tries to use the molds for metal figs as molds for resin and create failcast. Which when bumped - break.
So what does resin cost?
CHCH - Al
I like what I like and I don't need to justify it. And I like GW. Of course you can buy cheaper and of course that alone will attract a certain portion of players. More power to 'em - but I never can get over the vehemence of some who want you to like or dislike what they do. It is such a small industry... can't we all get along?
ReplyDeletejerm
NO!! The Rage must rein!
DeleteGW produces a premium product and charges a premium price. Some of the things they produce are very good (the Nagash books, most things by Forgeworld) but for me most don't represent value.
ReplyDeleteTheir plastics are superior to Privateer Press' and Mantic's (IMHO), which is I think where you are going, but are about on par with Wyrds. Privateer Press' have also been improving recently. Whilst they have market leading plastics, their finecast is terrible (from the few experiences I have had with it).
Asthetically, I am not a fan of a lot of the stuff they do now (forgeworld exepted), but technically its good.
Is it value? That's up to the consumer. Despite having a fairly high disposable income, I don't find a lot of value in GW's stuff any more (some exceptions noted). Part of this is the high number of models that are needed for a basic army compared to most other systems.
As most people have noticed, I don't get the need to prove that manufacturer A or B is better. Most of them are operating in a different space.
Dave Kinsey