Having read the thread yesterday seeking comment, here are my proposed changes to FOB-Lite Comp. I have marked up deletions and additions:
MAGIC DICE
Power Dice usage is limited to 12 in any one Magic Phase.
Night Goblin Mushroom D6 do not count as "power dice" as per their Army book.
Chaos Dwarfs’ Chalice may not be used mid-spell.
LIST RESTRICTIONS
LIST RESTRICTIONS
- No single non character unit in the army may be over 500 points
- No triple of the same warmachine except for Elven Bolt Throwers/O&G Spear Chukkas where you may take up to 4
- Max 4 units with the ‘Fly’ or 'Hover' special rule (a max of 3 may be characters)
- BSBs in older books are assumed to have mundane weapons as per core troops
- “Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress” may not be taken.
Race Specific Restrictions:
Skaven
Hell Pit Abominations and Warp Lighting Cannons are 0-1 unit selection per army.- A Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace may only be placed in a unit containing no more than 50 models.
- Warlock Engineers are 0 – 3 models per army.
Tomb Kings
- Khalida is restricted to unit with 40 shots
Daemons of Chaos
Ogres- Beasts of Nurgle restricted to maximum of 6 in list with Epidemius
Skullcannon 0-1 unit selection per army (unless either Bloodthirster or Herald of Khorne and a unit of Bloodletters taken)
Ironblaster 0 – 1 unit selection per army- You may take a max of two of
eitherDispel Scroll, Runemaw or Hellheart, not both
Magma Cannons are 0 – 1 choice
Warriors of Chaos
- Crown of Command may not be taken on model with Third Eye of Tzeentch
MAGIC DICE
Power Dice usage is limited to 12 in any one Magic Phase.
Night Goblin Mushroom D6 do not count as "power dice" as per their Army book.
Chaos Dwarfs’ Chalice may not be used mid-spell.
LIST RESTRICTIONS
LIST RESTRICTIONS
- No single non character unit in the army may be over 500 points
- No triple of the same warmachine except for Elven Bolt Throwers/O&G Spear Chukkas where you may take up to 4
- Max 4 units with the ‘Fly’ or 'Hover' special rule (a max of 3 may be characters)
- BSBs in older books are assumed to have mundane weapons as per core troops
- “Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress” may not be taken.
Race Specific Restrictions:
Skaven
- A Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace may only be placed in a unit containing no more than 50 models.
- Warlock Engineers are 0 – 3 models per army.
Tomb Kings
- Khalida is restricted to unit with 40 shots
Daemons of Chaos
Ogres- Beasts of Nurgle restricted to maximum of 6 in list with Epidemius
- You may take a max of two of Dispel Scroll, Runemaw or Hellheart
Warriors of Chaos
- Crown of Command may not be taken on model with Third Eye of Tzeentch
I think this might balance things at the top but it'll probably make life hopeless for the also-rans while bringing Ogres back into the competition. My prediction is that this change would see lists become on the average much harder and much more cannon based. At the end of the day though whatever you do is not going to please everyone (or even anyone).
ReplyDeleteI know it's not a vote, but my preference would be, status quo, no comp (no special characters), no comp, this proposal.
Cheers. Jeff
Actually I'll swap status quo into 3rd place. My reasoning, it's selfish, it means I can play pretty much whatever army I want, how I want to. I'm ok with others doing the same.
DeleteYeah no special characters...I can still take KFranz :) and Throgg sucks....
ReplyDeleteAs you say, it's not a vote.....except by tournament attendance. :-)
ReplyDeleteI did look at Throgg and considered a limit on his trolls at 15. But there are tactics you can employ.
I'm not trying to balance the game....just knock the worst excesses.
And we all know why you don't like it Jeff :-)
As I said, I'm a selfish man, but other than on the principle of more permissive comp (which I'm all for) why do DoC need a 2nd Skillcannon?
DeleteTo snipe out the DE flying circus?
DeleteIn all seriousness, why 0-3 flying characters as a general rule? Is there an army where it causes problems outside of DE?
DeleteAre any other armies bringing >3 flying characters? If not, surely the general rule is okay.
DeletePete - the option exists for other armies to take it, it's just not effective, it's apparently only an issue when DE do it.
DeleteNick - My heart bleeds for all NZ DoC players that one of your number lost 12-8 to a DE army, change is needed.
Jeff - I suspect it is the combination with 1+ saves that can make it effective with little risk against a lot of armies.
DeleteStill I'm sure you'll be able to rotate effectively through three flying characters.
Jeff - you will note I haven't moaned about the DoC comp, nor the DE lack thereof. That is because i'll play with what appears. But you are totally being a homer here. "DoC need comp, DE don't! Let me bring my toys, but fuck that guy and his toys!"
DeleteI'll moan when someone does something particularly stupid (NLI/Phil's current obsession with incoherently bad sports scoring systems, for example), but give me restrictions, i'll work to them.
The comp that I believe needs to exist on armies to stop mind numbing stupidity:
DeleteLimit on engineers - obvious reasons
Limit on Epi with Beasts - obvious
LImit on how big the bell unit is
No unit over 500 points
No more than 12 dice thrown
NG mushrooms don't count
Chalice can't be used midwary
No Folding Fortress
As far as I'm concerned the game is just a new skaven book away from pretty much requiring no comp on army books.I'm happy for DoC to have very very minimal comp on one special character, if you likewise lift it for others.
I'd be cool with that. My point was more that, *if* you are going to comp, say, chari-cannons, you have no reason not to also comp, say, flying circuses. (In fact, having comped one, you have reason to comp the other) Better to comp both than either one, best to comp neither.
DeleteHey Pete,
ReplyDeleteI have to say I agree with Jeff. Never going to please people (nerds especially!). I also think there are enough events around that are going to be using Swedish, ETC comp for instance that the Pete Lite system pretty much becomes uncomped Warhammer. People can bring what they want and if CTA is anything to go by that level will be harder. Is that a bad thing? Maybe not in its self but new players etc. might find it a tough introduction. If you are trying to take the top off the hardest lists I’m not sure it achieves that it just brings ogres back into the game with DE/DOC/WOC/HE/Skaven as top tier of armies.
We'll see, won't we.
DeleteNot sure why you think totally uncomped Warhammer is any easier introduction.
Still look forward to your feedback after Skitterleap....you are coming aren't you?
Indeed mate, we will. It is my plan to head to Skitterleap
DeleteI do prefer the more permissive system, as most comp in NZ is more about restricting individual players as opposed to the army. We have such a limited player pool and a large proportion of them tend to bring armies they want to play as opposed to optimized lists.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think Ironblasters, skullcannons, warp lightning cannons, and magam cannons should be restricted as an either or distribution, thus still allowing them but having to make small concessions. Daemons should be choosing between 2 skull cannons and Beasts, Ogres between Ironbalsters and Mournfang, and Skaven between dual WLC and Bell. Chaos Dwarfs between say Magma Cannon and Daemon Cannon.
The flying cap is also something that I think is a relic from earlier days. Perhaps raising the cap to 6, with characters counting as 2 would be more permissive. Allowing other armies to match the mobility of Dark Elves would be in itself beneficial overall.
As Pete said, this is his version of comp, and people will vote with thier feet
Problem is Tim, I don't have any interest in writing an ETC type document....
DeleteI'm trying to keep things as light as possible as apparently no-one likes what they are playing with comped but see an absolute need for everyone elses.
I can only imagine the outcry if I turned up with ten 15 point engineers....suddenly no-comp wouldn't be such a wonderful thing :-)
I think my posts intention may have been lost in translation...
DeleteThe above was modifications to your comp pack, basically taking what you have written and refining them slightly. I was not talking about no comp.
I'm happy with this comp pack. It looks to me that the main objective has been met:
ReplyDeleteMinimum possible restrictions to achieve a soft restriction on the top tier builds in the current meta.
Will the character flyer cap stop me fielding a super Bret RAF list, or a double griffon, double eagle High Elf list? sure it will...but I can always use them to terroroise people in my own time...gotta break some eggs to make omlettes etc etc etc
Joel v
or just make it DE only, the ones causing the problem, and let those other lists be used if people want.
Delete