I've asked this question before on here before but Ben Curry on his Bad Dice Daily got me thinking about it with his comment on the bile on TWF for the new Daemons of Chaos.
I used to be a regular contributor on WargamerAu but in the past two years have pretty much avoided it. I also was a financial supporter of Dakka but now I just check the News & Rumours section and the old Dakka Discussion thread. I do go to TWF but this is most likely to ask a specific rules question.
Why the change?
The last five years have seen the rise of the Internet Warriors on the forums.
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These guys have always been there but the last few years has seen them multiple at an astonishing rate. They typically show themselves as trolls, adding little or nothing to a discussion but being incredibly argumentative to no positive end. A variant is the one that has quit playing the game but hangs around to dish out huge dollops of negativity be it about rules, figures or the game/hobby in general.
I just got tired of them.
And it seems others have to, if the rise of blogging is any indication. Sure, you still get trolls and internet warriors on blogs but generally the blog seems to have more of a community feel about it - like the forums a decade ago, I guess.
Why? Well most of the contributors know each other and self-moderate their views. It's a lot harder to be an arsehole if you know you are going to be across the table from your target at a tournament or club.That is part of the reason why I ask commentators to identify themselves here on FOB.
I agree with you Pete forums lost their appeal for me a few years ago. I was a regular on 4-5 posting and joining in on discussions. But they're just too negative to bother with now - the FOW forum is an exception there but I only really visit it to check out peoples painting.
ReplyDeleteAppeal with blogs is that you can select what you read and its easier to avoid the stuff you dont like i.e. you dont have to trawl through 25 pages of crap on a single post.
I stopped using general wargaming forums like Dakka and Warseer because of the people who thought they knew best and that their internet list was better and more superior to the other internet lists. I go on them to check the fluff discussion and the galleries but that's about it. That's why I created my own blog so I can voice my opinion to the people that I talk to or see on a frequent basis, i.e tournaments and clubs, and I'm more then happy to take advice or criticism from them. So that way I don't have to deal with the people I don't know or have never met try to tell me how to spend my money and play the game I love so much.
DeleteWell you should probably stop trolling Tom Richards YouTube channel then :-)
DeleteYeah, reading through the various forums just tends to leave me frustrated. I generally avoid the gaming discussion areas and head for the modelling logs instead. In this respect I'm effectively looking at blogs anyway (just ones that are contained in the forums).
ReplyDeleteI still feel like the forums are a necessary evil because of how useful they are for organising events, but otherwise I'm happy to largely ignore them.
When I got back into the hobby I picked up the forums but I never check them now. We have a great community feel on the NZ blogs and there some really good ones (including this very one) and it is a much more productive way to put effort into the hobby. The recent NZTC and all the coverage was awesome, a great way to create a buzz, bit of banter before the event.
ReplyDeleteCheers James
The banter did hurt me though... cried in the shower several times
DeleteI’m surprised a few more didn't actually want to physically hurt you are after having to play the dwarfs at the weekend! Lucky your such a nice guy.
DeleteI would tend to agree as well Pete. I go to places like TWF but there's really not too much worth reading when compared to the blogosphere. I think the extra effort it takes to set up a blog screens out the trolls.
ReplyDeleteWhat I do like about forums though is the ability to follow conversations better at a glance. Once you got over 50 something comments on your post regarding comp it became pretty tricky to follow the multiple conversations due to the blog comments structure.
The latest Bad Dice nods to Pete and Tim are testament to the quality of the bloggasphere here. The tremendous banter and sledging before and after NZTC in particular and tourneys in general is an indication of the health of the community.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame that this has come at the expense of the more democratic forums, which I frequent (CityGuard), but the problems with forums and demcracy are in many ways shared too. That is too many opinions.
The challenge Blogs have is that while they are a great medium to get your opinion out there, people are a lot less forth coming to respond with their own opinion. In most cases, this isn't a bad thing, but sometimes you're after a wide range of actual contribution, which is the last area that forums still edge out blogs.
ReplyDeleteYeah, completely agree. Each are tools for different purposes. Comments on a blog are an adjunct to the 'published' message.
DeletePity forum software up till now has been so terrible.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/02/civilized-discourse-construction-kit.html
Pretty keen to set one of those bad boys up to see how it goes.
Ive found over the last few years that forums attack the worst in the community, probably like what you say Pete, there anonymous.
ReplyDeleteI find blogs these days are mostly informative and have a mature audience. It allows people who are passionate about the hobby to share their experience without being eaten by trolls. That and blogs are not banned from work, but the forums are... =P
My biggest hate is those people who have left the hobby, but still feel the need to berate and attack it and the people who enjoy it, since obviously they know better...
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ReplyDeleteBlogs are great, I like them even more now that I've met a few of the tournament participants involved. It does lead to a more friendlier community and that continuation of relationships in between tournaments and games.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Being able to quietly blog away in the background while working certainly is a bonus. The troll thing really put me off the many forums that I (used) belong to(...and now only occasionally visit). NZTC was my first tournament, and I really enjoyed the maturity, banter and friendly rivalry in the build-up and aftermath. Being able to view other's pictures and experience of the event without some troll pouring his vitriol on it certainly is fantastic. I agree with Sam about the relationship building aspect too.
ReplyDeleteThe appeal of blogs is a relatively good signal to noise ratio; as others have stated, you don't have to trawl thorugh the rubbish to find the good stuff. However, without subs to the right RSS feed, you can miss the good stuff too. I still frequent painting and modelling sections of forums looking for inspiration. Even wau still has some gems.
ReplyDeleteI tend to check out blogs as there is less bitching and they are prime source of inspiration for my painting.
ReplyDeleteI blog with a few friends to share our ideas and modelling with those in our circle of friends, and to grow our circle of gaming friends.
Forums are more of a competition to see who can bitch about their army.
Agree, I like the constructive nature of blogs, they tend too stay on topic a lot more too.
ReplyDeleteI hope you appropriately ragequit the forums you frequented though....
I'm a youtube channel man myself. But this blog business is tempting. At least it uploads faster.
ReplyDeleteWell said. I don't check out forums anymore - too much randomness (a little) and too much negativity (mostly). I do check out a handful of my favorite blogs - of which this is one. I like tournaments (mostly) but love Warhammer and I find this site to be full of enthusiasm, good ideas and rude jokes about Dwarfs (which are still awesome, so long as they are not gun lines). Keep up the great work! Maybe one day I will not be...
ReplyDeletenow you just need to hope that the blog poster doesn't go all feral on you and start posting rubbish. but at least it's easier to ditch the blog if that happens.
ReplyDeleteYou don't get discussions on blogs nor the divergent opinions and ideas that you do on forums. I'd prefer it if people had to use their real names rather than hide behind some nom deplume
I have to begin by saying that the blogs from individual wargamers are very inspiring for a some time hobbyist like myself. I'm a little disappointed that forums are not getting the support they deserve especially local content NZ forums like the South Island forum and the one I've just discovered the Auckland City guard forum (the real one not the sham one pretending to be every club but is actually nothing like what it seems). I have to confess that I'm very inactive and am the first to admit I contribute very little in terms of voice on them. I guess I'm more timid than I look and a lot less knowledgeable than most of you guys as I haven't been involved in the hobby for that long. I just thought I would add my voice here to give you guys my view from the little time I've been involved in the hobby. Forums have helped me to start wargaming again because they offer a safe haven for a beginner like myself. It also helps to foster a community and often a club or regional feel. Maintaining a little anonymity especially in your local forums for the shy is a good and some times bad thing I suppose. Without veterans such as most of you guys here supporting local content and fostering the beginners like myself in your local forum I'd hate to see that choke fledgling interest.
ReplyDeleteHamish new to the Hobby.
I wrote an epic reply to Tailby, please imagine the content, the internet ate it.
ReplyDeletewhat epic as in 6mm tall? Or epic like a norse saga?
DeleteQuote of the day for me, well played sir.
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