I’m really enjoying the Skaven-Envy (I hesitate to call it ‘hate”) both here and on the City Guard forum after the release of the NiCon lists.
See to me this is the joy of a Hard Cap composition system. The criteria are all there upfront so you know exactly what you could be getting into when you put your list together. So my sympathy level is flat-lining.
When I chose Skaven I looked at the various criteria and what I had seen at recent events before I wrote up my list. My biggest fear was that I would run into a VC-Scream list which hurts both of my current armies – Skaven and Ogres. As a result I knew I had to have a solution or I had to take a chance. I think my list is mid-ground. But boy was I happy to see neither a Terrorghiest nor a Banshee in any of the Vampire lists. They are still extremely dangerous to Skaven but would have been worse with the “scream”.
These choices apply to all armies. In a hard cap system you should always look at what you are likely to be facing across the table. So if you are a Warrior of Chaos player and you fear the 13th Spell then you need to have an answer…..an obvious one is to bring a Knight bus. Another is to have the option of Pandemonium in your spell choice.
Oh course, all this planning goes for naught when I miscast Turn One and my Seer disappears into the Warp!
To be fair Ross has recently suffered a very traumatic case of bad touching by the Skaven, he's still in shock and ... he's saying things he doesn't mean.
ReplyDeleteWait until he meets Seerlord Morskitta....he's known as particularly nasty and devious even among Skaven - as your Flamers and Tzeentch Herald can testify!
ReplyDeleteIndeed, he is a well known and particularly schemesome example of a Seer, so cute though! Almost as cute as Nurgle the cat, but with more cheese :)
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? No screams in any VC army? wow... its like the best way to delete chaff they have.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Pete, if you want a practice game or two before next weekend, I have lots of time on my hands, and haven't played for about 2 months. The twitch is starting...
Same email address?
DeleteI would have brought the Knight Bus but extensive playtesting has proven to me that it doesn't really work without the Stubborn Disc lord..... Which you can't take to NICON.
ReplyDeleteI don't really mind playing Skaven half as much as I make out, my record against them is 2 wins, a draw and 3 losses.
They are just an easy target!
At least Pete's army will be decent enough to look rather spiffy whilst it batters my back doors in ;D
Skaven an easy target.....more lies. We should be -1 to hit because we are small and cute with silky whiskers.
DeleteAs you say I'd fancy my chances against an infantry WoC army BUT the dice can be cruel. You play with fire and sometimes you'll get burnt ..... And when it happens to the rats the wheels fall off fast.
I'll admit a secret, my favourite ever GW Character is Grey Seer Thanquol.
Delete....Still hate that Doomrocket though! :D
Pete, I understand and agree with what you're saying; the comp was known for a long time, people had the chance to think through what they're likely to face and should have had the foresight to plan their armies accordingly. It's a competition after all, time for the big boy pants and too late to cry.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, Skaven are a strong army, and some of the criticism/whining/trashtalk might be justified....
Either way, it's too late to debate it now.
As far as I can see most armies got off fairly lightly comp-wise except for those that rely on lots of war machines and Dark Elves (mindrazor doesn't work, no flying circus, no deathstar.. boo!).
ReplyDeleteI can see why you'd take skaven with these restrictions, but it's a fairly close call between that and ogres. Not having a 2nd ironblaster is a lot more important when you play TLOS over the ETC LOS I've been playing, and Skaven's main counters are weakened somewhat, so Skaven is the right choice.
However.. what is everyone else doing to stop either of those armies? They know you're coming with one of them and taking Wood Elves isn't going to cause you much consternation either way. And not a single knight unit among any of the WoC players when they can't have puppet (and know/complain that Skaven aren't too bothered with the comp) o_0
It's either a case of you take the army you want to play and enjoy no matter the outcome, or you're playing to win and need to take all of this into consideration. But if you're part of the former, then don't complain about comp, play the army you love, enjoy the games, but realise that those attending to win/place have a different goal and if you'd like to be in with a chance to win then you need to take a different approach. And if you're part of the latter, get on the internet and see what's working and why and try and incorporate the ideas into your lists.
I don't mean to moan too much, but 1) this seems to be the fantasy version of 'Charlie' syndrome from the 40k scene and 2) I have the same loathing of Wood Elves that you do for Dwarfs and a tournament with so many Wood Elves just turns my stomach. Wood Elves people... seriously... blegh...
And btw, the best list BY FAR is Stephen Hastings.. I have never seen anything like that in my life and hope he wipes the floor with everything he comes across.
I agree that Skaven list is by far the suprise for me, although the all skink lizzies is pretty out there. I like the comp system, and MUCH prefer this to Peer comp, although I can't understand why the puppet is banned in Auckland so much? I think Skaven are by far the best army around at the moment, they have all the tools to deal with any situation. I still enjoy the challenge of playing them, and the greater feeling of satisfaction when I beat them... :)
ReplyDeleteI didn't realise that the Puppet was banned until now. That's bizarre. I thought it was restricted i.e. you couldn't have it and something else.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't understand the hate. To me its a valid item.
Looks like some interesting lists in there. To the people who keep complaining about Skaven taking the same items and selections I would point out that the Skaven lists are very different (again) and the Stephen Hastings one is very very different!
ReplyDelete7 Wood Elf armies eurgh, they taste like chicken but my Skaven always overdo it on the feasting after and it;s just a mess around the lair. Also, all 7 Wood Elf army's have Hail of Doom arrow and there's really not a lot of difference between all 7 but of course it's the Skaven people are moaning about......
Roll on the next big tournament where flavour of the week army has changed to WOC and we have 8 lists with 20 strong Khorne knight bus and disc lord with puppet and the forum is overloaded with complaints about the 2 Skaven people who both brought a warp lightning cannon!
We don't complain about Skaven, it's obvious they are cheesy. Having that 'one' Skaven list which is unusual doesn't mean there's a huge divergence of Skaven armies taking all the cheese they can I think. Stephen was trying to think out of the square and good on him and I hope he does well.
DeleteWood Elves are such a fragile army but totally different play style and its great we have a resurgence of an army that the internet has said is dead. I hope it takes a podium to prove theory hammer should be a published column in womans weekly.
I was wondering where all the other Orc players are? oh thats right, no one else is mad enough to play them... for an 8th ed book, there doesn't seem to be many playing tournaments with them recently, and the lack of composition hits (apart from making Mushroom dice = power dice) reflect this.
ReplyDeleteI think small numbers playing OnG is about how unreliable they can be, in saying that, my list has been a performing a lot more consistently (thanks Jossi!) lately, and I have had to change my playing style slightly to 'meet my list in the middle,' list is more aggressive, so I have to be prepared to be more aggressive...